Sunday, October 18. 2009
DEALING WITH THE FUTURE
With the public outcry over Francis, I don’t want to add to the increasingly abrasive discourse over his presence. There’s nothing we can do except hope things blow over, and that the media will be distracted by other events (like unmanned balloons over Denver).
I’m taking the long range view on this, as is my nature. Thorough analysis of the DNA of everyone involved leads to this finding: when someone crosses the portal they are changed to adapt to that dimension. That change is apparently permanent, as I’ve been here twenty years without reverting to my original human form. However, the act of conception, with its chaotic mingling of genes between mother and father, triggers the latent human genome within the resulting offspring. These genes are apparently so powerful that all other genes become recessive. Thus, George is indisputably Francis’s father, yet Francis has no observable fennec traits.
I explained last week why Francis’s human traits did not fully manifest themselves until after his birth. It follows that if Catherine Aura were to have more children on the human side, they would either be born avian or become avian shortly after their birth. ...Or hatching. The same goes for Nigel.
And me.
Yes, if Fenton and I have children, they’ll be human. We’re both grappling with the consequences of this outcome. I haven’t mentioned one way around that: an egg donor. From someone on this side of the portal. Who shares my identical genetic profile...
On the other hand, maybe we’re meant to give birth to a human child, to grow up to be a mate for Francis. I don’t know...
Do you?
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Perhaps you can slip through the portal when it's time and come back after so that the child is changed by the trip
Considering your family's become the center of attention before, I imagine this will soon blow over too. I imagine a few of those protestors a few months ago were clammoring to have the then fuzzy Francis classified as one of their own.
As for kids, that's a highly personal matter for me to get into. I'm sure things will turn out okay there.
As for kids, that's a highly personal matter for me to get into. I'm sure things will turn out okay there.
Whoa, so that's how it happenes. Well, I don't really know what to say other than to do what you think is right. And maybe when you and Fenton desided to have kids, the people of your world will grow to accept the exsitace of humans. Well, only time will tell.
Also, out of curiousity, what do you think will happe if Fransis, or any human born on your side, would cross the portal.
Also, out of curiousity, what do you think will happe if Fransis, or any human born on your side, would cross the portal.
Logically, it would follow that Francis could cross and re-cross the portal over and over without changing his human form.
Maybe that's his destiny then -- to become an "ambassador" between the various universes.
i'm sorry to say that i don't quite believe that. the portals aren't that specifice if my memory serves me correctly. the change can be blocked withe certain heavy metals lead for one and probably gold and platnum but that's besides the point. the portals generate a type of genetic camouflage replacing species markers between your worlds to allow sapient species to interact with each other in a hopefully civil manor. taking him throng the portals should change his spices appearance and genetic markers but the question is into what? he has no genetic doppleganger on either side of the portal so his spices would be in doubt, he might no be come either a fennec or a long eared rodent when it was over. i for one believe it better to leave him be at least for now.
Actually, I think that confirms it. Go from the animal world to human world you get human DNA markers, he already has those-no change. Go from the human to the animal world you get a matching set of markers to your counterpart (Danielle) or the set you had when you left (Martha/Ralph)-he was human when left, logically he'd be human when he returned.
Baring some very unlikely and bizarre "Safe Havens" level DNA antics he's going to be human. Nothing wrong with that, it ain't like the Dewclaw family ever gets LESS diverse.
Baring some very unlikely and bizarre "Safe Havens" level DNA antics he's going to be human. Nothing wrong with that, it ain't like the Dewclaw family ever gets LESS diverse.
I hope everything works out alright for your family. I understand why Danielle wouldn't want to have him cross and re-cross the portal just to appease everyone else, even if it would be a solution. Maybe he could be protected under some kind of disability act? I admit that may not be so desirable, but with few natural instincts and the fact that Coney won't be able to protect him forever, maybe it is a viable solution. And anyway, doesn't his existence merely boil down to the result of mixed race parents? With all the mixed couples that are popping up, there are bound to be new and interesting births all the time...
I have a theory that the two worlds aren't technically balanced. I know this sounds wierd, but part of it springs from the fact that two of you and two of Danielle exist on your side, but Ms. Aura stated that there was not an equivalent to Fenton on this side. So it's more like a cracked mirror as opposed to an exact duplicate. If it were an exact duplicate, Danielle might have died on her side in a similar fashion as your Danielle. In fact, maybe the universe isn't trying to maintain a balance, but rather fix the mistake that seperated the two worlds.
If it weren't that, I'd at least look into why the small "cracks" happen that cause personal differences without completly affecting everyone around them.
If it weren't that, I'd at least look into why the small "cracks" happen that cause personal differences without completly affecting everyone around them.
I'm not sure humans are meant to be on your side of the portal, as humans. Consider Martha, who by all logic is supposed to be there, but when she was human still set off instinct loss in those around her. This is by no means fair. Those who want to be in your world should be able to be without deleterious effects, but the world is not, by it's self, fair. As for the potential of your kid being a mate for Francis, if you think he should have that option, that's up to you. However, who Francis ends up with should be his own decision, and not dictated by species.
I'm not really sure what to say about this Lindesfarne... this defies all logic, in SEVERAL shapes and forms.
Maybe a portal trip wouldn't do a thing, but maybe it could! It's worth a shot anyway. And if nothing happens then nothing happens, move along to the next theory. Thats how science works (to a point).
-sighs- It feels kinda stupid. Stuck on the wrong side of the portal where all the action is going down! What a adventure... Uh... ignore the rambleings. Sorry.
Maybe a portal trip wouldn't do a thing, but maybe it could! It's worth a shot anyway. And if nothing happens then nothing happens, move along to the next theory. Thats how science works (to a point).
-sighs- It feels kinda stupid. Stuck on the wrong side of the portal where all the action is going down! What a adventure... Uh... ignore the rambleings. Sorry.
instinct loss or not i dont think you want a band of humans in your world. contrary to some comments here humans do have instincts. greed,lust,fear of the disimilar and the stealing form "the other guys" are part of those instincts. though the habitat destruction thing isnt. in north america where i live there used to be a dominant culture of people who believed it was wrong to just take form the land and destroy habitats.
> humans do have instincts. greed,lust,fear of the disimilar and
> the stealing form "the other guys" are part of those instincts
These would be considered more like traits than instinct as they tend to define an individual's action as opposed to a species.
BTW, did you used to work on The Screen Savers?
> the stealing form "the other guys" are part of those instincts
These would be considered more like traits than instinct as they tend to define an individual's action as opposed to a species.
BTW, did you used to work on The Screen Savers?
no they are instincts inherited from our waaaaay more primitive days. when we were first banding together to make tribes. elevating your tribe at the expense of another became a survival tactic
Just got home from the SkinScare con, and of course everyone was talking about Francis.....
One point about the future, though: If he and your (ahem) possible progeny are going to be the pioneers of Humanity here, isn't their gene pool a little restricted?
I beg pardon in advance for what may seem a rather touchy question; but if Domain-born Human DNA is not compatible with the rest of the population, well........ perhaps you should go over your options again. 7@=G
One point about the future, though: If he and your (ahem) possible progeny are going to be the pioneers of Humanity here, isn't their gene pool a little restricted?
I beg pardon in advance for what may seem a rather touchy question; but if Domain-born Human DNA is not compatible with the rest of the population, well........ perhaps you should go over your options again. 7@=G
Hello Lindesfarne
I'm a newbie here, although I've been lurking and following the goings-on in your world, including Francis' human transformation. As a wild born, civilized vixen, as well as a logical and rational one, I admit to feeling at a loss for words or advice here. It's beyond my ken of experience, as it's obviously beyond yours, so I can only advise you not to make any rash decisions. Only you can ultimately decide what is the best course of action to take, concerning your (as yet) unborn children. Childrearing, as I understand it, can be messy and confusing no matter the mix of species. But whatever their species or what they look like, they'll be your blood, and that's what counts. Try to keep a cool head above all!
I'm a newbie here, although I've been lurking and following the goings-on in your world, including Francis' human transformation. As a wild born, civilized vixen, as well as a logical and rational one, I admit to feeling at a loss for words or advice here. It's beyond my ken of experience, as it's obviously beyond yours, so I can only advise you not to make any rash decisions. Only you can ultimately decide what is the best course of action to take, concerning your (as yet) unborn children. Childrearing, as I understand it, can be messy and confusing no matter the mix of species. But whatever their species or what they look like, they'll be your blood, and that's what counts. Try to keep a cool head above all!
You know...there have been so many different species crossing here, all outrage to the contrary, is it so impossible to think that Francis might marry and have children with someone native to domain who isn't a human? Coney seems rather fond of him, for instance -- and since Danielle isn't actually Kevin's sister, there's no issue of their being blood cousins.
I know I'll probably be flamed by anti-human protesters for saying that, but there are still some unenlightened folks on this side of the portal who think a rabbit and a wolf can't find true love together -- or a hedgehog and a bat, or even a lion, a tiger, and a bear (oh my!).
I know I'll probably be flamed by anti-human protesters for saying that, but there are still some unenlightened folks on this side of the portal who think a rabbit and a wolf can't find true love together -- or a hedgehog and a bat, or even a lion, a tiger, and a bear (oh my!).
Unless I'm mistaken, though, isn't Danielle genetically identical to Kevin's sister? After all, wasn't she the sister of the Kevin on the other side of the portal?
Hmmm...you have a point there. They'd be like identical twins then. Er, scratch the Coney idea I suppose. Still, is it so impossible to think that Francis might find a mate on his own when he grows up that isn't a human? (I keep wanting to point to the skinfolk on this side of the portal...okay, I know they seem weird, but a lot of that is just stupid prejudice; they're very nice when you get to know them).
Oh no doubt. After all, even most humans will admit that they're animals too. The only real difference being that on their side most other animals level of sentience is questionable. Over here, he's just a bald ape. I was just saying that whoever it is, it wouldn't be Coney.
I'm a newbie here, Lindesfarne, although I've been lurking and following your blog for some time, including Francis' human transformation. I have no idea what to tell you, as this is beyond my ken of experience, as it is yours, obviously. As a wild born, civilized vixen, however, as well as a logical and rational one, I would simply advise you to not make any rash decisions but to simply sit loose and try to keep a cool head. Only you can ultimately decide what to do about your (as yet) unborn children. You and Fenton, that is. It's good you've already begun discussing this with him. Whatever your children's species will be and whatever they look like, they will be your blood, and that's what counts.
As for growing a child as a mate for Francis - how did you feel when an arranged marriage was pushed on you?
I'm no geneticist, but as you mentioned, you've been here 20 years. How long has Danielle been here...two, three? I don't have to tell you that lifeforms go through a lot of changes over time. As someone mentioned awhile back, perhaps it's possible that you /won't/ have a Human child. Your system's had a long time to acclimate to your world. Perhaps you could create a simulation to test it out.
Just my two credits.
On a different topic, are you planning on getting Windows 7 when it's released this week?
Just my two credits.
On a different topic, are you planning on getting Windows 7 when it's released this week?
I was just thinking the same thing. Perhaps Danielle has just not been on your side of the portal long enough for the changes to fully take place.
Not being a geneticist myself, I have no idea. Have you thought about possibly testing one of your own eggs to see how the DNA composition looks?
Not being a geneticist myself, I have no idea. Have you thought about possibly testing one of your own eggs to see how the DNA composition looks?
If humans and rabbits are compatible, wouldn't humans be too? I mean, I don't think you have to be worried about mates.
> If humans and rabbits are compatible, wouldn't humans
> be too?
Huh?
> be too?
Huh?
Yes, you could argue your human kids could be mates for Francis. But what if your kids and Danielle's kids (because I think, being a rabbit, she'd have more than one :3) hate each other? I doubt they'd want to mate for the sake of species. That doesn't seem to bind anyone else in this world! Why would it apply to humans? Besides, what if Francis doesn't want children? Or what if your kids don't want children? It becomes a moot point.
In short, don't worry about it. You're not even married yet. There's an awful lot of life yet before something like this is a visible obstacle on the horizon.
In short, don't worry about it. You're not even married yet. There's an awful lot of life yet before something like this is a visible obstacle on the horizon.
Balloons:
Ha, see! Just as I said last time; jackassery remains constant, regardless of the universe.
For Miss Aura--- uh, do birds have menopause... or would it be more pertinent to ask if dolphins do?
I don't know, maybe the old school version of Science might be good: "Conseq-what?? I'm in the middle of something here!"
Ha, see! Just as I said last time; jackassery remains constant, regardless of the universe.
For Miss Aura--- uh, do birds have menopause... or would it be more pertinent to ask if dolphins do?
I don't know, maybe the old school version of Science might be good: "Conseq-what?? I'm in the middle of something here!"
The only real problem with humans in the Domain world is the instinct loss. But so far, that's only been observed with alien humans. Perhaps native humans - conceived and born in the Domain world - don't trigger that reaction? In which case there may emerge a small population of natural humans.
As for Ms. Dewclaw's offspring being potential mates, there are three facts to consider.
One - Francis (and any other humans) will be members of multi-species families growing up in a multispecies world. Just because there is a human mate available doesn't mean Francis would choose her. Or be chosen.
Two - One of humanity's few confirmed instincts is the Westermarck Effect. In effect, any individual a human child has constant contact with in the first six years of life becomes "imprinted" by the child as a family member, and thus not an acceptable mate. If Francis and Ms. Dewclaw's offspring grow up in close proximity, then they would not see each other as potential mates and would look elsewhere.
Three - Francis started off as a odd-looking but non-human-appearing individual. Any children of Ms. Dewclaw are likely to start the same way. Rather than being an authentic species, humanity in the Domain world might eventually be considered a genetic condition, like albinism or Domain-type domesticity. it's possible that humans would never be officially classified as a species, but rather as having a medical condition brought about by having too many species in one's ancestry.
So Francis might choose any potential mates on the basis of True Love; growing up with all existing other humans would likely remove them from consideration as mates; and Francis might not be an "official" species anyway!
As for Ms. Dewclaw's offspring being potential mates, there are three facts to consider.
One - Francis (and any other humans) will be members of multi-species families growing up in a multispecies world. Just because there is a human mate available doesn't mean Francis would choose her. Or be chosen.
Two - One of humanity's few confirmed instincts is the Westermarck Effect. In effect, any individual a human child has constant contact with in the first six years of life becomes "imprinted" by the child as a family member, and thus not an acceptable mate. If Francis and Ms. Dewclaw's offspring grow up in close proximity, then they would not see each other as potential mates and would look elsewhere.
Three - Francis started off as a odd-looking but non-human-appearing individual. Any children of Ms. Dewclaw are likely to start the same way. Rather than being an authentic species, humanity in the Domain world might eventually be considered a genetic condition, like albinism or Domain-type domesticity. it's possible that humans would never be officially classified as a species, but rather as having a medical condition brought about by having too many species in one's ancestry.
So Francis might choose any potential mates on the basis of True Love; growing up with all existing other humans would likely remove them from consideration as mates; and Francis might not be an "official" species anyway!
OK Lindesfarne. predicting the future is mostly guessing at best. Even with all the facts you have ou can't tell what will happen. How would either your human family or Danielle's handle the news. I think Danielle may have it a little easyer. If her human mother is anything like her rabbit mother a picture of her new grandson Francis may help get things started.
...but if it's truly retracing DNA... She was human -before- she was a rabbit, doesn't she have rabbit DNA now? At this point, or possibly as he grows up, won't that catch up to him?
Something about this all seems incomplete somehow. Like we haven't seen nearly the end of this.
Something about this all seems incomplete somehow. Like we haven't seen nearly the end of this.
Woops, weird typo. I meant if rabbits and wolves are compatible, wouldn't humans be compatible in the overall gene pool too?
You say you've done thorough DNA analysis. I can't really trust your conclusions from this unless I know what this thorough analysis entails. I don't expect you to post your abstract on your blog, but I just want to cite this ambiguity as the grounds for many of my points (which may or may not be correct according to your analysis).
First off, can you really say that Catherine Aura or Nigel will produce avian offspring? You make this assertion very readily, which is slightly unsettling to me. Have you had access to their DNA, both past and present forms? If you had tested it and reached a conclusion, I would be on board with this statement. But your lack of access to their current DNA form indicates that you have included Catherine Aura and Nigel in a generalization based on your results of the thorough DNA analysis. Is there something in your findings that does indeed hold true to the extent that you can start making such sweeping claims? If you've made a discovery this huge, please don't hold out on us! We'd love to hear it. XD
To reiterate my point with regards to your offspring, I don't know if you can know for sure that your children will be human. But anyway, moving on to the topic of an egg donor, I think this is a wonderful idea. Please do not take this the wrong way, but your existence is a universal anomaly. The extent to which you are affecting the universe may be much larger than instinct loss. For this reason, I think it would be (please pardon me for my harsh words) irresponsible to bring another "anomaly" (if indeed you know it will be) into the world. The consequences are unfathomable, and I am certain that what your human child would go through would also be very damaging.
I know you do not want to let the world dictate how you choose to live your life, but no sensible parent will readily offer his child up for the abuse and hostility that Francis is now facing. If you know children produced from your eggs will be human, I think it is best to acquire eggs from your other-world counterpart princess. You two supposedly possess the same DNA, so the children will essentially be yours. I know it's difficult to think that way, but it's really the best way for you to go.
Do not think that you are MEANT to create another human for Francis. That viewpoint sounds like it is coming more from the perspective of a curious scientist rather than a parent. Returning to my "anomaly" discussion, you do not want to perpetuate this human anomaly in your universe. Also, as some other comments have already pointed out, whoever Francis or your child decide to mate with, it must be their decision, not yours, and certainly not to benefit the scientific research on humans.
Also, inter-species breeding appears successful in your world. Would a human be able to reproduce with another species? Maybe a future topic of research for you would be to look into that.
Keep up the good work in trying to make sense of this whole thing, Lindesfarne. We'll keep giving you advice as best as we can piece it together.
First off, can you really say that Catherine Aura or Nigel will produce avian offspring? You make this assertion very readily, which is slightly unsettling to me. Have you had access to their DNA, both past and present forms? If you had tested it and reached a conclusion, I would be on board with this statement. But your lack of access to their current DNA form indicates that you have included Catherine Aura and Nigel in a generalization based on your results of the thorough DNA analysis. Is there something in your findings that does indeed hold true to the extent that you can start making such sweeping claims? If you've made a discovery this huge, please don't hold out on us! We'd love to hear it. XD
To reiterate my point with regards to your offspring, I don't know if you can know for sure that your children will be human. But anyway, moving on to the topic of an egg donor, I think this is a wonderful idea. Please do not take this the wrong way, but your existence is a universal anomaly. The extent to which you are affecting the universe may be much larger than instinct loss. For this reason, I think it would be (please pardon me for my harsh words) irresponsible to bring another "anomaly" (if indeed you know it will be) into the world. The consequences are unfathomable, and I am certain that what your human child would go through would also be very damaging.
I know you do not want to let the world dictate how you choose to live your life, but no sensible parent will readily offer his child up for the abuse and hostility that Francis is now facing. If you know children produced from your eggs will be human, I think it is best to acquire eggs from your other-world counterpart princess. You two supposedly possess the same DNA, so the children will essentially be yours. I know it's difficult to think that way, but it's really the best way for you to go.
Do not think that you are MEANT to create another human for Francis. That viewpoint sounds like it is coming more from the perspective of a curious scientist rather than a parent. Returning to my "anomaly" discussion, you do not want to perpetuate this human anomaly in your universe. Also, as some other comments have already pointed out, whoever Francis or your child decide to mate with, it must be their decision, not yours, and certainly not to benefit the scientific research on humans.
Also, inter-species breeding appears successful in your world. Would a human be able to reproduce with another species? Maybe a future topic of research for you would be to look into that.
Keep up the good work in trying to make sense of this whole thing, Lindesfarne. We'll keep giving you advice as best as we can piece it together.
Given how all of the different species in Domain seem to be able to interbreed, and that Danielle's human genes were able to breed with George's fennec genes with no difficulty, I don't see why Lindesfarne would feel a need to have a human child for Francis to marry.
And Lindesfarne has been wrong before. We've seen her grandchildren in a cannon peek to the future, and they were clearly hedgehogs, not human. So if human genes are so super-dominant, how could they not be human (unless she gets a donated egg)?
And Lindesfarne has been wrong before. We've seen her grandchildren in a cannon peek to the future, and they were clearly hedgehogs, not human. So if human genes are so super-dominant, how could they not be human (unless she gets a donated egg)?
Sigh. Lindesfarne, as a scientist you should know that one datum does not indicate a trend. Your hypothesis (and that's all it is at this point) of human dominance in genetic structure is based on only one case. You've said that you checked George Fennec and found no human DNA... but you also checked Danielle and found none before (IIRC). With that thought in mind, George could be a 'portalled' human as well, since by your own statements they are indistinguishable from normal Domain residents.
As for some of the other points that have been made, an egg donation is highly unlikely, considering the identity of the genetically-identical donor. The potential scandal there could actually be dangerous for you. I'd advise against making that attempt. An egg donation from another hedgehog source would be safer, although it wouldn't be 'your' DNA.
And finally, for those who have pointed out that we've seen Lindesfarne's grand children and they were hedgehogs, just because you call a person 'grandma' doesn't necessarily mean you share any genetic material with them. Lindesfarne and Fenton could adopt children of both species (or more) and the children would consider them 'Mom and Dad'. Their adopted children's kids would merely consider them 'Grandma and Grandpa.' In short, all the grandchildren prove is that Lindesfarne marries and raises children: it doesn't prove that she actually bears them herself.
As for some of the other points that have been made, an egg donation is highly unlikely, considering the identity of the genetically-identical donor. The potential scandal there could actually be dangerous for you. I'd advise against making that attempt. An egg donation from another hedgehog source would be safer, although it wouldn't be 'your' DNA.
And finally, for those who have pointed out that we've seen Lindesfarne's grand children and they were hedgehogs, just because you call a person 'grandma' doesn't necessarily mean you share any genetic material with them. Lindesfarne and Fenton could adopt children of both species (or more) and the children would consider them 'Mom and Dad'. Their adopted children's kids would merely consider them 'Grandma and Grandpa.' In short, all the grandchildren prove is that Lindesfarne marries and raises children: it doesn't prove that she actually bears them herself.
In what way would the donation of an egg involve scandal? Lindesfarne would be, to the public view, incapable of producing children, so her counterpart would be donating an egg in order to help her. Parents incapable of producing children enlist this procedure very often, so I don't think it would be as bad as you say. Maybe you can explain a bit more how these actions would be bad.
This is true, but remember, Lindesfarne's counterpart is a Princess. I don't imagine she can just explain it as a normal request for an egg donor. Even if she hadn't started out human, there would be a huge investigation into why she's an exact genetic match to the Princess.
Thank you, Steff. You hit it exactly: the reason I said that it could be dangerous to try and get an egg from Lindesfarne's genetic duplicate is that she (Princess Chertsey) is in line for the British Throne. Requesting that such an invasive procedure as an egg donation be performed would, at the very least, cause questions as to the future Succession of the Crown. If the fact that Lindesfarne and the Princess are genetic duplicates came out, it would bring the immediate Succession into question. There's always someone in any Government who feels that the best thing to do with any problem is to make it disappear...
(Also, to Jennifer: note that I said nothing about there being something 'wrong' about getting an egg donation from another hedgehog source. I only said that it wouldn't be Lindesfarne's DNA. If she goes that route, more power to her. I just said [obliquely, I admit] that trying to get an egg from Princess Chertsey, Lindefarne's genetic duplicate, could cause problems larger than she initially thought of.)
(Also, to Jennifer: note that I said nothing about there being something 'wrong' about getting an egg donation from another hedgehog source. I only said that it wouldn't be Lindesfarne's DNA. If she goes that route, more power to her. I just said [obliquely, I admit] that trying to get an egg from Princess Chertsey, Lindefarne's genetic duplicate, could cause problems larger than she initially thought of.)
Lindesfarne has a good reason for seeing the princess other them the one you have in mind. Don't forger they where both adopted from the same place at about the same time. It might be fun to get together with the one who shared a room with her at the time. When they are alone she could bring up the idea of an egg donation. Even princess like to travel. will their the donation can be made without anyone knowing about it.
#26.1.1.1.1
Steven Brams
on
2009-10-21 18:50
(Reply)
Another thing. Do they do a genetic test on everyone who comes in contact with the princess. Lindesfrane could first get the princess as a nen pal. After getting to know each other then they could see about one visiting the other. It may take a few years but she has the time.
#26.1.1.1.1.1
Steven Brams
on
2009-10-22 18:26
(Reply)
I'm sure they don't do a genetic test on everyone that comes into contact with the Princess. I'm also equally sure that the people coming into contact with her aren't trying to get her to be an egg donor, either. And while the pen pal idea is a good on in theory, how easy do you expect that to be, even with Fiona's help? And even then, the Princess may be willing, but will she be allowed? And it's not as if things can always be done in secret. Someone as high profile as the Princess couldn't go visit her pen pal without millions of people knowing about it, and knowing every breath they took while they were together. I'm not saying it's out of the question, just really difficult and could provoke a potentially dangerous situation for the Dewclaw family.
#26.1.1.1.1.1.1
Steff
on
2009-10-24 14:52
(Reply)
OK Lets put the idea of the Princess being an egg donor aside for now. I still think it would be a good idea for them to meet at some point. Even as just freinds. They could test each other using either email or instant messaging. Even play chess. I would think even a Princess would have some time to herself.
#26.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Steven Brams
on
2009-10-24 19:32
(Reply)
I have a question fir STEFF. I take it that Lindesfarne is also a member of the British royal family on the human side of the portal. Tell me this. What was she doing in the Bermud triangle. Also how did the princess end up in the same orphenage with her.
#26.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
Steven Brams
on
2009-10-25 17:47
(Reply)
You know Lindesfarne, maybe the universe is just trying to give Danielle a glimpse of what she left behind? Francis is the little boy she would have birthed if she'd gone back to her side of the portal.
A lot of anti-human propaganda is circulating in my neighborhood. Why, just recently a pack of canines were claiming Francis and his kind would try to domesticate us!!! Not many people want Francis or his family here now. Still, it'd be a shame for her to leave. She's obviously loved where she resides now!
A lot of anti-human propaganda is circulating in my neighborhood. Why, just recently a pack of canines were claiming Francis and his kind would try to domesticate us!!! Not many people want Francis or his family here now. Still, it'd be a shame for her to leave. She's obviously loved where she resides now!
......................................Situation: unfamiliar ............................................possible results: unknown.........................................analysis: inconclusive..........................................action to take: gather information..................................................................
My first thought was to slap a bungee cord on him and toss him through a portal. However, a previous comment was quite right... you could not pre-determine what species he would reappear as. You would not want him to be pulled back as a very short lived mayfly or an environment specific species like jellyfish. (Not that I have anything against those very useful contributing members of society, it would just be a very difficult transition for parents to make. Personally I at least want my kids to breath oxygen....)
Maybe you could trigger a genetic trend back towards rabbit/fennic characteristics through some other agency?
Maybe you could trigger a genetic trend back towards rabbit/fennic characteristics through some other agency?
At least now Francis can be classified: Primate
So, any other young primates around for him to play with?
(I'm sort of surprised Danielle or Lindesfarne didn't think about seeking advice from any primates. I'm pretty sure there are some in Domain.)
So, any other young primates around for him to play with?
(I'm sort of surprised Danielle or Lindesfarne didn't think about seeking advice from any primates. I'm pretty sure there are some in Domain.)
Ahh, here we go, a bit about instincts, from the Catlow world; http://www.genecatlow.com/d/20040204.html
I've been thinking more about what exactly constitutes an instinct. Nothing really good so far, a friend I talk to (but haven't in a while, I belive he's been busy) would be a good person to discuss it with, once I get back in touch with him.
One possible I have come up with on my own is;
A stimulus-response on the order of behaviors, as opposed to on the order of an action.
Ie: an instinct (like, the apparent one in Francis; to explore (FYI: [i]totally called it, heh~[/i]), or a migratory pattern, or the flight/fight response, versus a physical reaction (like your knee jerking when the doctor uses the little hammer on it).
It makes me think that the supposed human inctinct, that is, to conquer and destroy, is false. It is not an instict, as I belive there is no legitimate stimilus to effect that kind of response.
Of course, the fact remains that those actions exist.
I belive it is an expression of the consequences of self-awareness.
In a given universe, all of infinite size, time (maybe), and possibility, where, if something can happen, it will inevitably occur; it's not a stretch of the imagination to likewise connect; since we have the capacity for evil, it is inevitable that some will be evil.
I've been thinking more about what exactly constitutes an instinct. Nothing really good so far, a friend I talk to (but haven't in a while, I belive he's been busy) would be a good person to discuss it with, once I get back in touch with him.
One possible I have come up with on my own is;
A stimulus-response on the order of behaviors, as opposed to on the order of an action.
Ie: an instinct (like, the apparent one in Francis; to explore (FYI: [i]totally called it, heh~[/i]), or a migratory pattern, or the flight/fight response, versus a physical reaction (like your knee jerking when the doctor uses the little hammer on it).
It makes me think that the supposed human inctinct, that is, to conquer and destroy, is false. It is not an instict, as I belive there is no legitimate stimilus to effect that kind of response.
Of course, the fact remains that those actions exist.
I belive it is an expression of the consequences of self-awareness.
In a given universe, all of infinite size, time (maybe), and possibility, where, if something can happen, it will inevitably occur; it's not a stretch of the imagination to likewise connect; since we have the capacity for evil, it is inevitable that some will be evil.
As others have said, you live in a world where different species can interbreed. Even if you give birth to a human daughter, there is no reason to expect her to be Francis's mate. In fact, the opposite is true.
I know there has been a lot of talk about human instinct lately, and one of our instincts is not to mate with those we closely grew up with, if we are genetically related or not. In fact, human children who grow up in hippie compounds (do you have hippie compounds on your side of the portal?) find the idea of mating with or marrying children from their communes as repulsive as mating with or marrying their own siblings, even though they are not related in any sense of the word.
I personally can attest to the power of this. I am a female, and when I was a very small child, my best friend was a male. Even though we are not related, the idea of ever dating, or marrying each other seems...icky, for lack of a better word. We are still really good friends, and are Godparents to each others children.
If you choose to have children (and it sounds like you are planning on it) and if they are human I am sure you and Danielle will get together often to compare notes, and your children will grow up together.
Whatever happens, happens. I can only imagine the internal turmoil you must be experiencing right now.
I know there has been a lot of talk about human instinct lately, and one of our instincts is not to mate with those we closely grew up with, if we are genetically related or not. In fact, human children who grow up in hippie compounds (do you have hippie compounds on your side of the portal?) find the idea of mating with or marrying children from their communes as repulsive as mating with or marrying their own siblings, even though they are not related in any sense of the word.
I personally can attest to the power of this. I am a female, and when I was a very small child, my best friend was a male. Even though we are not related, the idea of ever dating, or marrying each other seems...icky, for lack of a better word. We are still really good friends, and are Godparents to each others children.
If you choose to have children (and it sounds like you are planning on it) and if they are human I am sure you and Danielle will get together often to compare notes, and your children will grow up together.
Whatever happens, happens. I can only imagine the internal turmoil you must be experiencing right now.
Ah yes, the Westermarck Effect. Does that exist in domain as it does on our side?
What happens if there have been other portal crossings?
The entire population of this your world could be substituted by Humans.
The revise could be true in Ms. Aura's case and that of Nigel. Perhaps in the end, you world becomes Human inhabited and my world becomes sentient Animal inhabited?
The entire population of this your world could be substituted by Humans.
The revise could be true in Ms. Aura's case and that of Nigel. Perhaps in the end, you world becomes Human inhabited and my world becomes sentient Animal inhabited?
I'm not sure if multiple children is something you'd even considered, but you could very well do both.
I'm also curious as to the reproductive prospects of Francis and any other humans on your side of the portal--whether he might be able to interbreed with other species, etc. I don't think the human genes would overpower those of Francis's eventual spouse, but it is possible.
I'm also curious as to the reproductive prospects of Francis and any other humans on your side of the portal--whether he might be able to interbreed with other species, etc. I don't think the human genes would overpower those of Francis's eventual spouse, but it is possible.
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